by Justin
Your Online Witness
8:23 am in Bible Thoughts by Justin
Is your facebook profile a good witness for Christ? MySpace? Blog?
John 14:15 says “If you love me, you will obey what I command.” How many people say they love Christ on their online profile, only to disobey him on the same page?
This was something that really bothered me when I attended a Christian college last semester. Many of the people were not real in there Christianity. Christ could effect their “worship”, but not change their life significantly enough to take vulgar things off their facebook page. I remember asking a particular person about a group they were in which had a filthy word in its title, only to be lied to about him “witnessing” to that group. Other so called “Christians” virtually brag about their drunk state when they upload pictures of themselves online. Do you know that this is what makes the world laugh at Christianity – and you are making it only a click away? It bothers me that people will say on their profile page that they love Jesus and do what Jesus hates in the next sentence. If you love God, keep his commandments.
By the way, the person I mentioned about the filthy named group joined another group title “Is your facebook a good Christian witness”… and he still has trash on his profile.
Does this bother anybody else?
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Nice post! I love it! have a nice day!
Thank you for your good wishes.
As a response to your post: it goes back, again and again and again, to the fact that your definition of Christianity is different than every other person’s, simply because everyone has a different experience of God than everyone else. Some people, the God experience is similar, some it’s not.
People who believe that Jesus was, in some mysterious way, both God and a human do not always agree on everything else. That’s the beauty of such an open faith, always growing and changing. We don’t have to agree on, say, whether a certain word is “dirty” or not, or whether drinking is a vile habit or not. We just have to try and build our own relationships with God as best we can.
Judge not, lest ye be judged; remember that the only person who can “hurt” your witness is you.
Sara, check out http://christianincollege.com/2008/06/22/can-we-judge/ and http://4simpsons.wordpress.com/2008/07/19/judging-is-a-two-way-street/
I know that you acknowledge by your words that Christians cannot/should not judge. I also know that you have spoken (and do often speak) with disrespect to those who disagree with you.
My point was–this is becoming a bit of a theme, no? You misunderstanding my point?–that the person whose “filthy” Facebook page you here condemn may have a different translation of his faith than you have of yours. You are the only person who completely agrees 100% with everything you say, just like I’m the only one for me, and Billy Graham for himself, etc. Christianity is an individual faith, and as such, the only person who can harm your faith is you.
So the posts to which you direct me are, again, not related to the things I said.
As for the “Jesus wants us to judge with humility” argument, unless we are perfect we still cannot judge another for sinning. Jesus was perfect (by your and, coincidentally, my interpretations) so He was allowed to judge whomever He chose because humans are sinful.
Christians are humans. We are sinful. Therefore, we will always be hypocritical when judging another human. Jesus was, in some mysterious way, both God and human, and His Godhood allowed Him to judge us. We are not God, and therefore we are not the Judge of the Earth as He is. Jesus was, we are not.
To further clarify:
We can make decisions as to what we personally believe.
We cannot make decisions for other people about what they believe.
We are not other people, therefore we don’t know their hearts.
We are not God, therefore we don’t know their hearts.
We are not God, therefore we do judge by appearances.
We are not other people, therefore we make poor choices.
It is uncommonly popular to allow oneself to judge by saying that “Jesus meant not to judge hypocritically,” but any time a human judges another human, they are doing so hypocritically.
Sara, have you just judged my view “wrong”?
Sara, would you allow a murderer to come into your house and then watch him kill your parents –just because you aren’t perfect?
there was a woman caught in adultery in the bible and Jesus did not let the preists stone her because they were sinful themselves. He then told her to go and sin no more. Maybe the key is repentance.
Ok, this is just me–but I think the thing is that we shouldn’t encourage or allow sinfulness, but only God can punish it.
Ok, this isn’t just me–”Christianity is” not ” an individual faith.”
All Christians MUST agree on what the Bible says. The Bible has many verses that talk about the words we use. The Bible wasn’t written in English so obviously, it’s not going to say, “Don’t use the word d*** or r*** etc. .” It just tells us to be careful what we say. So then, sometimes Christians don’t agree on the exact English words that are okay. But we do know that we shouldn’t say anything that is offensive.
I won’t leave you hanging here are just some of the verses in the Bible that talk about the words we use
Job 42:7
[ God Displeased with Job's Friends ] It came about after the LORD had spoken these words to Job, that the LORD said to Eliphaz the Temanite, “My wrath is kindled against you and against your two friends, because you have not spoken of Me what is right as My servant Job has.
Psalm 19:14
Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be acceptable in Your sight,O LORD, my rock and my Redeemer.
Proverbs 4:4
Then he taught me and said to me,”Let your heart hold fast my words; Keep my commandments and live;
Proverbs 31:26 She )opens her mouth in wisdom,
And the teaching of kindness is on her tongue.
Eph 4:29 Let no unwholesome word proceed from your mouth, but only such a word as is good for (B)edification according to the need of the moment, so that it will give grace to those who hear.
1 Thessalonians 4:18Therefore comfort one another with
these words.
James 3
1(A)Let not many of you become teachers, (B)my brethren, knowing that as such we will incur a stricter judgment.
2For we all (C)stumble in many ways (D)If anyone does not stumble in what he says, he is a (E)perfect man, able to (F)bridle the whole body as well.
3Now (G)if we put the bits into the horses’ mouths so that they will obey us, we direct their entire body as well.
4Look at the ships also, though they are so great and are driven by strong winds, are still directed by a very small rudder wherever the inclination of the pilot desires.
5So also the tongue is a small part of the body, and yet it (H)boasts of great things (I)See how great a forest is set aflame by such a small fire!
6And (J)the tongue is a fire, the very world of iniquity; the tongue is set among our members as that which (K)defiles the entire body, and sets on fire the course of our life, and is set on fire by (L)hell.
7For every species of beasts and birds, of reptiles and creatures of the sea, is tamed and has been tamed by the human race.
8But no one can tame the tongue; it is a restless evil and full of (M)deadly poison.
9With it we bless (N)our Lord and Father, and with it we curse men, (O)who have been made in the likeness of God;
10from the same mouth come both blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not to be this way.
11Does a fountain send out from the same opening both fresh and bitter water?
12(P)Can a fig tree, my brethren, produce olives, or a vine produce figs? Nor can salt water produce fresh.
Wisdom from Above
13Who among you is wise and understanding? (Q)Let him show by his (R)good behavior his deeds in the gentleness of wisdom.
14But if you have bitter (S)jealousy and selfish ambition in your heart, do not be arrogant and so lie against (T)the truth.
15This wisdom is not that which comes down (U)from above, but is (V)earthly, (W)natural, (X)demonic.
16For where (Y)jealousy and selfish ambition exist, there is disorder and every evil thing.
17But the wisdom (Z)from above is first (AA)pure, then (AB)peaceable, (AC)gentle, reasonable, (AD)full of mercy and good fruits, (AE)unwavering, without (AF)hypocrisy.
18And the (AG)seed whose fruit is righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace.
Whoo, there’s a lot to talk about!
Point number one, with regard to my “about” page on my personal site: Justin, you have made abundantly clear that you only provide links to Christian websites. I offered to add you to my blogroll (as per your request) if you added me, as a common courtesy. You did not–understandable, as we do not agree on the behaviors evidenced by followers of Jesus. That was the extent of my explanation for not adding you on my blogroll.
Now, to your reply to my clarifying points:
Sigh. As I cannot post a link, I advise anyone planning to disagree with Justin to take a look at a discussion we had previously on an external site called Colour of Television. Justin, as usual, you skip responding to any actual point or question I’ve put forth, and choose one tiny statement to respond to. As an answer to your one tiny statement, “Yes. I am a hypocrite about being judgmental. However, I am aware of, ashamed of, and trying to work on my hypocrisy in this arena, and remind you again that I have professed my love for you as a brother despite our disagreements. We have discussed this numerous times on the aforementioned conversation.
As for Anna:
Ahem. You, like Justin, have missed the point. I am not here talking about protecting myself or my family from murderers. I am not and have not been advocating allowing your personal behaviors to be dictated by the behaviors of others.
My point–which I tried three times here to clarify, but obviously have not made clear enough for y’all–is that Christianity is an individual, personalized religion. No one person has the absolute right to define for another person Who and What and How God is, merely because not every person experiences God the same way.
If you recall, Justin’s original gripe was with Jesus-followers whose Facebook groups, etc., reflect a “sinful” lifestyle. As a response, I pointed out that not everyone who follows Jesus subscribes to precisely the same categories of SIN and NOT SIN that Justin does, or that you do, or me, or Billy Graham, or Charles Spurgeon, or anyone else.
My point was never that we should hold flexible morals, merely that Jesus has a different, unique relationship with each person following Him, and since we are only ourselves, we really shouldn’t try to impose our relationship style on someone else.
Now, that being said, I am a terrible hypocrite. I have an open, questioning relationship with Jesus, and I don’t consider myself the end-all be-all authority on Him. I can’t even call myself knowledgeable about this mysterious God we all serve in our own ways. I am therefore struggling with understanding that others, like Justin and Anna and my parents, see God in a narrower way than I do. God speaks to you and them differently than He does to me, and I am learning slowly to understand that. All I ask in return is that you see it, too; if you can’t, I understand.
If I need to re-clarify this message, I will, but I am getting a little worn out from trying to simplify, simplify, and losing much of the meat of my comments. Again I recommend that anyone interested check out the conversation Justin and I had in the past, and notice the mob of questions left unanswered.
Justin–please respect me enough to read and try to comprehend my entire statement, not one inflammatory implication of it.
Thank you.
ok, what is your view of the Bible?
Thank you for saying that “My point was never that we should hold flexible morals, merely that Jesus has a different, unique relationship with each person following Him, and since we are only ourselves, we really shouldn’t try to impose our relationship style on someone else.”
I’m glad you don’t condone bad behavior, and I agree everyone does have a personal relationship with God.
It really does help when you simplify that!
Anna, my views on the Bible can be found at the website I mentioned, along with Justin’s responses to such views. I encourage you to check them out, although the rules here stipulate I cannot give you the link.
I also just thought of another way to answer your hypothetical question about the murderer.
That person broke a legal statute, and as such should be tried in a court of law by a qualified judge with expertise in the subject. I, the victim, would not be the judge in any circumstance; the law (assuming it is doing its job, of course) does not allow 1) unqualified and 2) emotionally involved/biased people to judge others. Spiritual matters are similar. Someone who trespasses against a spiritual “law” should be judged not by a fallible, emotional person without full knowledge of the rules of religion. I am unqualified to judge another person in spiritual matters, as are you and Justin and everyone else simply because we don’t know enough about religion/faith and because we have biases and prejudices. God knows everything and makes no mistakes, therefore He is qualified to judge.
Does that make sense?
I’m not really sure. I don’t understand everything spiritually. All I know is that Jesus did not let the religious leaders stone the adulterous woman–but he does say “jugde with righteous jugdement.” let me find the main judgement verse. I’ll write soon.
ok, I finally found the verse, (b/c I forgot it) but while looking for it at Biblegateway, I found tons of other verses about judgement. SO I feel like I can’t really know the truth until I read and forever remember the entire Bible which is impossible. sorry.
(By the way if your going to read this you should at least read the 2nd verse) {but you might as well read the entire Bible -I give up} Justin what to you think?
Matthew 7
1″(A)Do not judge so that you will not be judged.
2″For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and (B)by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you.
3″Why do you (C)look at the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?
4″(D)Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ and behold, the log is in your own eye?
5″You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye.
6″(E)Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.
Prayer and the Golden Rule
7″(F)Ask, and (G)it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.
8″For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened.
9″Or what man is there among you who, when his son asks for a loaf, will give him a stone?
10″Or if he asks for a fish, he will not give him a snake, will he?
11″If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, (H)how much more will your Father who is in heaven give what is good to those who ask Him!
12″In everything, (I)therefore, treat people the same way you want them to treat you, for (J)this is the Law and the Prophets.
The Narrow and Wide Gates
13″(K)Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.
14″For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.
A Tree and Its Fruit
15″Beware of the (L)false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are (M)ravenous wolves.
16″You will (N)know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they?
17″So (O)every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit.
18″A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit.
19″(P)Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
20″So then, you will know them (Q)by their fruits.
21″(R)Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
22″(S)Many will say to Me on (T)that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’
23″And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; (U)DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’
From Way of the Master:
In John 7:24 He said, “Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.” If someone steals, lies, commits adultery or murder, etc., the Christian can make a (righteous) moral judgment and say that the actions were morally wrong, and that these sins will have eternal consequences. Chuck Colson said, “True tolerance is not a total lack of judgment. It’s knowing what should be tolerated—and refusing to tolerate that which shouldn’t.”
It seems there is a heavy discussion going on here. I just want to say, I like your post Justin. It’s true that lots of people say one thing, and then do another.
Thanks Kristi, I’m glad you liked it.
to sara : a juge might be nice–if your parents don’t die 1st!
to Justin : I’ve been reading your comments on other blogs, so I wanted to say that a person can be a christian without a testimony -I’ve discused this with you before
I disagree Anna because a testimony is what happened to them and nobody can be a Christian if nothing happened to them (meaning if they were not born again).
Anna:
Wait, what? So, ignore the legal system? I don’t understand. Are you saying that laws and judges aren’t necessary in a civilization, that we should all act on our own vengeful emotions?
Because frankly, that’s an odd perspective from a person who follows Jesus. He was a big fan of following authorities and respecting your leaders.
I realize that I did not make that statement correctly. It is good to have the law. I feel like a person also needs to be able to defend and protect himself/herself. part of the reason for laws is to protect our rights.
That kind of thinking not only promotes vigilantism but also directly contradicts the words of Jesus.
I still don’t get it.
Sara, I’m sorry to see you arguing this point in the face of so much disagreement, but you’re doing an admirable job.
I think your point about definitions is spot on. We can all agree (Evangical, Emergent, Atheist alike) that humans are not perfect judges. Objectivity is more of a theoretical aspiration than a realty.
With this concession, from all sides, we can take the words quoted by Justin (“Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.”) as a sort of riddle, or even a joke. Since humans are — everyone together now — *incapable of objective judgment about the righteousness or lack thereof of an action*, it can just as easily be assumed that the quoted passage is a cation NOT to judge.
Now I know I’m wading into the deep end of a shark pool here, but as a relativist and a subjectivist, I’d like to take it a bit further and argue that “righteousness” is a contextual quality anyhow. Definitions of righteousness vary not only from person to person, but from situation to situation. Most people agree that murder is wrong. And (arguably) the Bible agrees with them on this point. HOWEVER, many people would ALSO agree that murdering a person to prevent the deaths of many (e.g. killing a suicide bomber, or what have you) is morally acceptable. Please not that this example is illustrative, not exhaustive. We could also frame it as stealing from a glutton to feed the poor, or even disobeying your parents (a Bible faux pas) to do right thing.
Yes, you can take the extreme, biased and highly personal countrerargument (“Are you saying that it’s ok for someone to murder your parents!?!?!?!?!”) or you can look at the bigger picture and recognize that I am simply stating that morality isn’t cut and dry.
If we can agree that morality is (to at least some degree) contextual, and that humans are imperfect judges, well… We’re left with a pretty weak position to judge anything from — no matter how clear it may LOOK to our imperfectly comprehending minds.
Hope this is something to chew on.